Blog #mental health

Tabitha Yates

Bestselling author of Jesus and Therapy: Bridging the Gap Between Faith and Mental Health 

**Tabitha's broadcast interview is being transcribed & will be available soon**

These are Tabitha's favorite scriptures...

Tabitha, you speak openly about surviving physical and spiritual abuse. How did you find the courage to break the silence and share your story, and how did your own journey with faith and mental health shape its message?

First, unfortunately, there are a lot of systems in place to protect people in power who are abusive. So when you’re talking about church and spiritual abuse and those things that I went through, that was very scary to talk about, and then when you’re talking about family abuse, nobody wants you to bring that into the light, of course. 

And so I had to walk so closely with Jesus through this process because I needed to know that I knew that He was in it, that He was commanding me to do this, that He was giving me the words because there was so much fear interjected into the whole process, and what if someone sues you, and what if your ex-pastor comes after you, and what if your father comes after you, and all these things where I was like, “Okay, like those are some legitimate fears,” and to be able to open up, that was one of the most significant parts of my healing. I realized that my silence was not protecting me; it was protecting them, and the people who have wounded and hurt me have been avoiding accountability for decades. Therefore, it was a type of reckoning, like I wasn’t going to cover for them anymore, I wasn’t going to hide, and I wasn’t trying to drag them through the middle or bash, and I made sure to change their real names. I was very respectful, but I am going to tell the truth and talk about what I experienced because it doesn’t matter—it did happen. 

And so it was a raw, you know, third, fourth, and fifth healing process for me because I had to get to a place on my own healing journey where it wasn’t triggering to talk about. I wanted to be speaking from a place of healing, not from a place of wounding, because I didn’t want that to be filtered through which I was, you know, saying things to people, and that was really important to me. So, throughout the blessing before the Lord, there were a lot of bathroom floors and sob sessions as I continually surrendered to God, letting Him wash over me and heal me, and letting Him use my story to hopefully go out and heal others. 

I think the book is very much a companion guide because I’m never coming at it from the angle that I’m healed, mainly because of how complex my trauma was—my healing is going to be a lifelong process. So the book is very much like, “Let me come alongside of you and show you what I’ve learned in the last 20 years of healing,” so maybe it will give you a little of a roadmap in areas where it’s still really foggy for you, and that was my hope because I didn’t have the church or parental leadership—I didn’t have anyone walking me through healing, just Jesus, myself and my counselor, so I feel like I was going through this jungle with a machete and clearing a path that did not exist. I’m like, “My goodness, if I can go to someone a few miles back and be like, ‘Here, you know, I cleared a little of the way. Like, here are a few ideas.” Here are a few tips. Here are a few things that got me through and made their healing journey a little easier. That was my heart. There was so much to do, and that was to illuminate a path that had been so hard to carve out, and for other survivors to do it with just a little bit more of a roadmap than I had.

My abuse was spiritual, verbal, emotional, and narcissistic. Every safe adult in my life subjected me to every type of abuse imaginable, so I was incredibly confused and believed, “I guess this is just how grown-ups are, and there’s no safe place.” It led me to become severely suicidal because I’m like, “There’s no way out,” and I couldn’t escape the abuse anywhere I went. 

How did you start your healing process? Can you share a couple of steps you took? Was there anyone in your family or at your church you could go to, or a friend who came along with you, who could share what you were going through?

I unfortunately needed to break before I rebuilt—part of my journey was that my church did not believe mental illness was a legitimate thing at all, so everything was overspiritualized. I was not allowed to go to counseling. Even in the beginning, from having childhood abuse and parents who divorced dramatically, and all the things I’d gone through, where counseling would have been beneficial, I was not allowed to do that. Then it got to the point that it literally led to me overdosing and attempting suicide before I could see a counselor, so it took getting that bad because again, that was the only escape from the abuse and the hell I was in that I could see, and that was the only way out. After that act, I got locked down in a psych ward on suicide watch by the time I was 16 years old.

I was able to start seeing a Christian psychologist, and it took a lot of healing and years to unravel myself from toxic systems and relationships. It also took me growing older and finally being able to make choices for myself—saying, “Okay, I’m not going to do this anymore. I’m not going to listen to this person anymore. I’m not going to go to this church anymore.”It took a complete shattering of my faith, because for so long my faith had been placed more in people than in God. I had lived in such a spiritually abusive environment where the message was always, “We speak for God; you don’t hear from Him yourself.” Everything spoken to me in that system was damaging and wounding. I had to completely separate people from God and realize that everything I had been told about Him was not true and not biblical. I had to burn it all down to the ground and start over—rebuild my faith and find the truth for myself. There were two women in my church who would still say hurtful things, though not intentionally—they meant well, but they didn’t understand depression or suicidality. Still, a few people tried to show up for me and love me during that period. But they weren’t the ones who should have been protecting me, sheltering me, or helping me at that point. 

It took a long time to unravel everything I thought I knew about Jesus—what He felt like, what He felt about me—and to rebuild my understanding of His love. I wrestled with believing that He could still love me after all I’d been through. I wondered if I was some disgrace to Christianity because I was depressed and traumatized. I remember pastors and elders telling me things like, “God’s done with you. You’re beyond saving. You’re not even worth saving.” They said God had washed His hands of me—and that permitted them to do the same. I truly believed I was worthless, beyond saving, and that even if God could save me, He didn’t want to. The level of damage that was done to my faith, my psyche, and my sense of self was enormous. It’s taken a lifetime to undo all of that and to rebuild a foundation that actually comes from the truth of Scripture.

My earthly father’s abuse deeply distorted my view of God. On top of that, many of the church leaders I grew up around also abused me, and I ended up projecting all of that brokenness onto Jesus. It took time—and a lot of healing—to finally develop a healthy, personal relationship with Him that wasn’t shaped by my past pain.I reached a point where I had to step away from those people and toxic environments. Everything they poured into me was rooted in lies, not truth. Setting healthy boundaries became necessary for my healing. And I’ve learned that boundaries are not unkind—they’re actually a loving and wise way to protect the heart God gave you.

Many Christians struggle with the idea of seeking therapy and think that it shows a lack of faith. In your book, Jesus and Therapy, you share six false beliefs to help Christians know and understand that faith and therapy work together. Please share about these beliefs.

What encouragement would you give to someone watching who loves Jesus but is quietly battling anxiety, depression, or burnout—and doesn’t know where to start? 

I think there’s no reason for churches not to be trauma-informed, not to have a care team, and not to have people who understand mental health. I think this even extends to awareness training for people with special needs, to make sure we don’t further wound them. Because again, there’s another level of harm when we wound people in God’s name. 

We need to be the safest place. We need to be a place where people can go to heal. And we need to stop being uncomfortable or put off by pain. We also need to stop rushing people through the healing process. So much of what happens is spiritual bypassing—just slapping a verse on someone’s pain and pushing them past actually sitting with what they’ve been through. There is a difference between ruminating for years and actually walking through your trauma. Real healing requires sitting with it. It requires feeling it. And we can’t heal what we won’t name. 

As Christians, we need to become okay with discomfort. We need to be willing to hold space for people—their journeys, their grief, their pain—without feeling like we have the right to tell them how to grieve or how to heal. Of course, we can always point them to the arms of a loving Savior who is walking with them. But we need to be careful and guard our hearts so we don’t inflict more damage on someone who is already at their weakest and most vulnerable. I don’t think there’s any excuse anymore for pastors not to be trauma-informed or to avoid training. There’s so much excellent training available.

When we come to the end of ourselves, God is just beginning. Healing involves both Jesus and therapy. Some healing only Jesus can do. But some healing requires the tools available to us—counseling, support, boundaries, and sometimes medication. God doesn’t require you to suffer alone. He doesn’t call it “more spiritual” to stay silent or avoid help. He wants you to step into the light and seek resources. If Christians have made you feel like you have to silently carry your anxiety or depression as your cross to bear, you don’t. You’re allowed to heal. You’re allowed to address the real trauma in your life. It doesn’t have to be that heavy forever. I didn’t want to carry it for the rest of my life—and for my children’s sake, I wouldn’t. So I chased healing. And now it has become my life’s mission.

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Samuel Johnson

Counselor, Coach, and Consultant 4C LTD

These are Samuel's favorite scriptures...

Samuel, you wanted to share the meaning of your name. 

Yeah, I was sharing this anecdote with Dawn-Marie earlier that I didn’t grow up a Samuel. I was a Sam in my childhood, and I grew up in a small town in the mid-1970s; Sam was not a popular name back then. There were more Samanthas than Samuels. I was speaking with a colleague a few years ago, and I asked him if he preferred Josh or Joshua. And he was describing how he would much rather be called Joshua than be a joke, as in “Josh” or “joshing around,” and it got me thinking about my name, which is incredibly powerful. It’s such a powerful name, and I’m glad my parents chose it for me instead of my brother’s. My brother’s name is Darin, and my parents named him after Bobby Darin, the singer of Splish Splash; I was taking a bath. So I got the biblical name, and he got the musical name. However, this connection to the name is that God hears Samuel, and I didn’t just want to be heard. Throughout my life, I struggled, believing that no one was listening to me. This struggle, rooted in my childhood experiences, has significantly shaped my identity and my journey of faith. So, this was a transformation for me, transitioning to the name Samuel. This was confusing for some of my friends, and even my wife would emphasize my name by saying ‘SamUEL,’ but I much prefer that God hear me and I am heard by Him. The name Samuel resonates with me in several ways, as he was the last of the judges before the time of the kings, and he anointed kings. What Samuel did was anoint not just one king but two. And he anointed the greatest king of the kingdom of Israel, King David. The few times that I’ve heard God’s voice, one time He said, “Get up. You are a king and a kingmaker.” God speaks to us; our identity is in Him, and it says in Revelation 2:17 that He will give us a new name.

When you were in fourth or fifth grade, you went through a hard season because of your parents’ struggling marriage. How did this season shape you and lead your path today? 

Yeah, there was a time when my parents were struggling in their marriage, and because I became a Christian as a child, I asked them if they would continue taking me to church because they weren’t going. I just wanted to be there, and they took me, and I went by myself. At the time, my older brother was not as connected to faith. There was this gentleman that I knew who lived in my small town, a community of around 4,000 people. Everybody knew everybody, so I knew this man, but he was my parents’ age, and when you’re in fourth and fifth grade, you’re intimidated by them. One day, he asked me to sit down and talk to him. He told me that I was so brave, and I had no idea what he meant by that. It was normal for me to be there, and it reminds me of Samuel in the Bible because he was raised in God’s house, and I wanted to be in His house, too. Today, my practice is even in the church that I attend. I have always felt very comfortable in God’s house. So it’s like my living room. 

You shared with me that, at one point, you wanted to be a technical writer. However, it was during your time as a resident advisor in college that something began to happen, which became a clear indication of your calling and gift. 

Yeah. So, first, for those who don’t know what a technical writer is, it’s like getting those manuals, and now, sadly, most of them you can’t understand because they’re written in a language other than English. A technical writer writes for scientists. I have a very scientific mind. My family gets tired of me talking about it because I won the biology, chemistry, and physics awards, and I’m this touchy-feely dude in therapy, too, so I can bridge these two worlds pretty well. I have an undergraduate degree in English and a master’s degree in counseling. I had planned to work in technical writing, but I became a resident assistant at the college I attended instead. My roommate was also a resident assistant, so we split up the hall and would have meetings like all the other RAs. At the meetings, we would gather and go around, and many of the guys would talk about winning their basketball games and their intramural competitions. Another would say that it was a great meeting because they had to work on different programs. The other RA would ask me, “Okay, Sam, so how are things with you?” And I’d say, “Well, this week, this one guy attempted suicide. I have one guy who’s strung out on pot, and he hasn’t gone to a class in four weeks. Another guy went to walk on the railroad tracks downtown, considering leaving school and just taking a train, you know, and then there was another gentleman who has a deep, affectionate place in my heart because he has a personality disorder and would pick up whatever personality or identity that suited him in the needs of the situation he was in. What became very clear to me was that God was leading me toward a profession in therapy where I could help people. I had those pieces in my background. In high school, I was part of a group called Peer Helpers. I was always doing things that helped my friends. In college, I was an English major, and I thought to myself, “Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?” I’ve wasted four years?" No offense to English majors out there, but I had packed my schedule, so my senior year, I was going to blow it off entirely. I had available time in my calendar. It was God’s gift because I started calling schools and said, “What do I need to do if I want to get in?” And they said, “Take this, this, this, this, and this class.” And all of them fit into my schedule. It was meant to be. So, I took all these introductory psychology classes as a senior with freshmen. Lastly, my roommate, remember, was an RA as well, and one of the things that solidified my decision about my giftedness and calling was when he said, “Sam, when the guys are looking to have fun, they’ll come and find me, but when they need help, they will wait for you."

You shared that you had trauma. What kind of trauma did you have and go through? 

Yes. Parts of my story I choose respectfully not to share because it also affects some other people, but certainly, I can add the experiences that my parents went through. They did remain married, but there was a lot of ugliness in their marriage. I remember looking into the mirror in fourth grade and saying, “I’m done with them. I’m done with them.” I swore them off and drew a line. Thankfully, that’s not where I stand with them today because I’ve had healing. I can share this bit, too. I also attended a Christian camp. As I mentioned earlier, the only place I wanted to be was in the house of God. If it weren’t for Craig, with whom we are Facebook friends to this day and stay connected, I shared with him and his sons that if it weren’t for their dad, I would not be here—I would have taken my life, as parts of my trauma left me suicidal. Craig, my camp counselor, was very influential and is now a pastor and missionary. We’ll never know the seeds we’re planting in people’s lives this side of heaven.

You specialize in anxiety and OCD, couples work, Internal Family Systems, EMDR, brainspotting, and EFT. Could you explain all of these methods? 

Sure. Part of the reason I specialize in many of those areas, not all of them, but many of them, is that it takes one to know one, right? I have anxiety, and a doctor would probably diagnose me with OCD. My wife certainly would think so, which is obsessive-compulsive disorder. Anxiety looks like being distressed or worried more than you ought to, and some people manage it just fine. Truth be told, a little anxiety is good for you because it helps you perform to the best of your abilities, but it can also incapacitate you if not managed. What I’d like to be clear about is because a lot of people will say, “Well, I don’t have obsessive-compulsive disorder because I don’t check the knobs of the stove when I leave the house, or you should see my desk.” That has nothing to do with what OCD is. You can have different behaviors, and if you have a messy desk or if you have some area in your life that you can’t control, it could be a sign that you do have OCD because what people do is say, “Well, I can’t manage that so I’m not even going to try.” So, my type of OCD is much more about the inability to stop thinking—You can’t shut it off. The obsessions are the thoughts. You can have compulsions of counting and checking, and that is where mine shows up.

For example, I will lie in bed and count, check, and go through mental lists over and over, prepping for the next day. There are a lot of ways you can have obsessive-compulsive disorder. You also asked about some of the ways that I provide treatment. One approach is called the Internal Family Systems. So, if you’ve seen the Disney movie Inside Out, the movie represents various parts of a girl’s brain as animated characters—there’s an angry part, a disgusted part, a happy part, and a sad part of the brain. What we do, in a sense, is anthropomorphize them or give them life. We apply Internal Family Systems to our system, meaning ourselves. In essence, we would engage in therapy with ourselves from a Christian perspective, guided by the Holy Spirit, a process designed to help individuals lead themselves more effectively. There’s also a way to do healing work with it as well that doesn’t look the same but takes you to the same result as EMDR, which is a trauma healing approach, and brainspotting is an offshoot of EMDR. Researchers discovered that EMDR involves eye movement—that’s what EMDR is—so the therapist moves their fingers back and forth. Then, the client watches them, and there’s a lot more that goes on. However, while that’s happening, it allows the brain to heal from what it was previously trying to keep away from or block out. Brainspotting is an offshoot of that. Whereas a gentleman named David Gran discovered that while he was moving his fingers, sometimes people’s eyes would wobble or stick, so instead of moving his hands back and forth, he found the spot where the distress “lives,” and you held it there, and the distress heals, so I use this approach as well. EFT is a couples therapy approach called emotionally focused therapy, and men tend to hate that name because they think they’re going to be required to cry. It’s not true. There are many emotions involved, but it’s one of the most researched and well-documented approaches to couples’ therapy. Couples therapy approaches tend not to have as much research behind them as individual approaches, so I wanted to learn a skill because when I was doing all of this trauma work with people and helping them heal, they would say, “Can you please tell my partner what you’re telling me and explain to them what’s going on?” I also do neurofeedback, which involves placing electrodes on your head. My wife, daughter, and I do it. It’s not therapy, but what it does is shift your brain from a state of distress or fight, flight, or freeze mode to a state of rest, moving it to rest, digest, and relax mode. 

What’s the difference between surviving and truly living? How do you help people reach a point of healing, freeing them from their struggles? 

I love these questions, and they’re so huge, but let’s see if I can encapsulate them. But first of all, the difference between surviving and thriving. And by the way, surviving is necessary. Surviving is a good thing. Surviving is a skill that humans have developed and need to possess. Parts of our brain help us survive. Survival almost always revolves around protection and keeping you safe. Protection is beneficial, but it often hinders healing because protective mechanisms resist addressing the issue. Until you’re ready to heal, protection is a good thing. For a time, surviving is necessary, and it’s perfect. I’m always telling my clients that they need to do what they’re doing. You needed your OCD. You needed your depression. You needed your anxiety to keep you alive. You needed your ADHD, etc. It’s very unshaming, right? Because people come in like they believe they’re bad or wrong for having this mental health concern. And my first line is, “No, it kept you alive.” Literally, in many instances, I’ve experienced my own suicidal experiences. In many cases, this depression, anxiety, etc., kept the person alive until they were ready and able to heal. And healing is literally that. So, let’s use an example. Let’s say you have a broken bone. And what you could do is you could wrap it up in gauze, and you could splint it, take some aspirin, and limp along. You could be okay, and your arm would probably heal, but it would probably heal deformed. However, if you visit a doctor, they can put it in a cast and use it, allowing you to return to your normal state, where it would be as good as new, if not stronger. When bones break, they heal—they’re stronger at the break. By the way, I believe that the same thing happens in these transformative healing approaches that I use. EMDR, brainspotting, and IFS were all accidental discoveries about trauma. All three experts, David Gran, Francine Shapiro, and Richard Schwarz, would say, “Well, I just found this serendipitously,” and it happened to work. I believe all of these serendipity experiences are God’s work. And they brought transformation to people. Other forms of therapy are excellent, necessary, and valuable because you might be in that place where you need to survive, and you’re not ready for healing yet. So, I don’t knock any other form of therapy. EMDR, as well as IFS and brainspotting, are approaches that help a person feel safe enough to allow that wall to come down so it doesn’t feel scary or threatening. It’s an approach that enables the wall to come down just enough, and then it can also go back up. 

How has your faith continued to influence your life and work today? 

I’ll throw in an anecdote about running here. For a season, I was a runner in high school. I’m not an athlete, and I don’t connect with those things. I’m a nerdy scientist type, but I’m currently in training and have just completed a 25K trail run, which is approximately 15.5 miles. Trail running differs from pavement running, and now I’m preparing for a Spartan Ultra, which will be 32 miles and feature 60 obstacles. The metaphor here is that we’re always in training, and when we permit ourselves to do hard things, God honors it and blesses it. God didn’t say things are going to be easy. No. God didn’t say your life is going to be a picnic. No. What God told me is that I experienced some complicated things in my life, and He allowed those things to be used for good. I received my healing. I got healing through EMDR, and after that happened, I said, “I have to bring this to other people.”My life verse is Genesis 50:20. “But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.” I firmly believe that God wants me to do this work, and He allowed what happened to me. I don’t like saying, “He did it. That’s unfair and unreasonable. He certainly allowed it, and good came out of it. 

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Estelle

Regulatory Oversight Specialist

These are Estelle's favorite scriptures that ministered to her during her healing process from trauma.

Estelle shared her story on Truth, Talk & Testimonies

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Did you grow up in a Christian home?

I grew up with relatives who were Christian. My mom was a Christian, but my father was not, and they got divorced when I was a baby. My mom introduced me to the Lord, and my grandmother and aunts knew the Lord. I was told that I was around 5 years old when I became saved and accepted Jesus in my life to save me from my sins. My mom asked me if I accepted Jesus, and I said, “Yeah, mom, and I felt Him. So that's what I'm told. For most of my childhood, I loved the Lord and spent much time in church. 

You shared with me that you went through trauma and abuse—can you share some of that? 

Yeah, my stepfather abused me. My mom remarried when I was about 4 years old, and my stepfather was an alcoholic. When I was 11, for a prolonged period, he was abusive to me. He would molest me—it wasn’t as bad physically as what I hear a lot of people experience in a situation like that, but I think for me, it was the psychological trauma of it, the way I was groomed and tricked and manipulated—it was very devastating and traumatizing because I also wanted to have a close relationship and father figure, but he took advantage of that. I have a good relationship with my biological father, but I didn’t see him very much. So, my stepdad took advantage of an 11-year-old girl who wanted to have a wholesome father figure in her life. It was just very traumatizing, and it happened over a prolonged period. I was a zombie as a kid because I couldn’t process what was happening to me. 

You told me you received help in the church. 

Yes. In my junior year of high school, I didn’t have a safe place to stay because my mom was in the hospital, and I was alone with my stepdad. To my knowledge, no one was aware of my abuse. He stopped abusing me at that point, but it wasn’t safe for me to be there. One of my aunts, a Christian, came to check on me, and she discerned it wasn’t safe for me there. I believe that was the Holy Spirit. I thank God she checked on me, and for about a month, until my mom got out of the hospital, I stayed with my assistant pastor’s family. They treated me like I was part of their family. It was one of the best experiences of my life because I could see what a healthy marriage was and what a Christian household could look like—it was just a wonderful experience for me. It gave me a great impression of myself and something to think back on even when I grew up. It served as a helpful gauge for me to evaluate relationships. God used that experience. 

God used that experience there in that household. Did anyone know what was going on at home?

I don’t think anyone knew at that point that someone had molested me. The interesting thing is that going back to when I was 11, I think people knew something was going on with me because I remember meeting with the pastor of my church at one point. He asked me if my stepfather was touching me, which to me was an odd question—I don’t understand a lot of the circumstances that were happening in my life back then, but at that point, I think I couldn’t even admit it to myself, and I knew I was lying to him, but I told him no. Also, a man asking me was uncomfortable, even though my pastor was someone I respected and was a safe person. Still, when I was living with my assistant pastor’s family, I think they most likely knew I came from a troubled home. My stepfather was an alcoholic, and obviously, my aunt didn’t think it was safe for me to be there. I don’t think they knew the extent of what was happening. Eventually, my mom and I did go to a therapist and would talk about how his alcoholism affected me. That was when I had many memories resurface because, for a while, I was blocking everything out as a protection. It was too much for me to want to admit or face—I think I was around 17 or 18 when I went to that therapy session with my mom. I tried to talk about what happened to me, but I did it vaguely. I blacked out and don’t remember much from that session because it was traumatizing. 

Did you go to college then, and if you did, what for?

I did end up going to a Bible college. The pastor of my church, who loved the Lord and Scripture, inspired me. He was so serious about the Word of God, and it was fascinating when he would share about all these fulfilled prophecies in the Bible, and I would be on the edge of my seat. And he would get so emotional about what Jesus did for us—he was very analytical, scholarly, and innovative. Jesus’ death, and the grace and mercy He gave us forgiving all our sins caused him to weep at the pulpit. This made a great impression on me, and I wanted to learn more about the Bible. I felt so blessed by my church. I would go to youth group, and I went to church on Sundays and Wednesdays regularly. That might sound like a lot, but I loved being around other believers and receiving support. It was a place of stability, and I wanted to learn more about the Bible and pay forward how the church helped me.

When you started college, you took ministry courses but veered off. What caused you to get off track?

There were a couple of things—I mentioned that I viewed my pastor as analytical, and I’m very detail-oriented and analytical, so while studying theology, I began to notice things in the Bible that I thought were contradictions, but we know God never contradicts Himself or the Word. I knew Jesus wants to save everyone, but yet narrow is the way—and there is a hell. I had doubts and questions. I think I was missing discipleship—looking back, some things were missing in my walk with Christ, but the idea of hell was so triggering to me and my trauma because I grew up feeling in danger. Something I didn’t mention is that I did try to get help as a child and reach out to someone, but I don’t think I thoroughly explained what was happening to me, and the abuse continued. I tried, and I was just a kid, and it was a lot to process. 

I ended up standing up to my abuser. One day, I snapped and started screaming at him—exceptionally intensely. I was a skinny pip-squeak of a kid, and I stood up to this grown man, and he actually apologized to me, and he never did it again, but it could have happened again as I got older because he was still drinking, and my aunt was noticing things that I was not safe. That dangerous environment compromised my safety. I always thought that I was in danger, and I couldn’t handle the idea of someone being in danger of going to hell. When I was in danger, I put a stop to it, and I think that the idea of people going to hell is just so triggering to me. And I thought, oh, people are in danger, and I felt responsible—I didn’t know how to save these people. And we know that we’re not the ones who save them—Jesus does—I didn’t trust God that He’s responsible for saving them. I couldn’t handle the idea of hell, and I had a lot of questions. I think I had a lot of pride, and I started to drift away from the Lord and think that I didn’t need Him very much. There were a lot of things going on, and eventually, I became a closet atheist while in Bible college. I remember reading the story of the prodigal son a bunch of times. I felt like I didn’t believe it. Should I admit to myself that I didn’t believe it? I thought that maybe God wanted honest disbelief over blind belief, and I ended up throwing my faith away. I didn’t share with many people what I was going through. Some of my close friends knew, and they were pretty devastated. I graduated from college and lived on my own with roommates—For at least 15 years, I lived as a nonbeliever.

Did you get involved in the New Age and things like that?

Yes, at first, I started as a secular humanist and didn’t believe in anything supernatural. I still wanted to be an ethical person and have morals. I studied philosophy and ethics, and it was so empty, and there’s no philosophical system that’s good or comparable to what the Bible teaches us. Nothing that I could find was satisfactory, and it felt very empty. There was a part of me that still craved spirituality. Also, I was hurting—for the most part, I had managed to keep things together even though I had this trauma that affected almost every area of my life, and I always knew something was wrong with me but managed to keep it under wraps.

In 2013, my half-brother, who had been in the military and had gone to Afghanistan and Iraq, went missing; we found him, and he had committed suicide. There were a lot of circumstances around that, and it was re-triggering to me, as well as things related to communication. Things with communication triggered me my whole life because I tried to reach out for help, but I didn’t communicate well, so communication was a big deal for me. I found out about my brother through someone I was friends with on Facebook, and they said, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I saw a news report.” I searched on Google to see if there were any leads, and I saw from an online newspaper that my brother passed away. I called a family member, and she told me she knew nothing. It was so traumatic. I called the police, and they were cold towards me because I wanted to know who in my family knew. I then called my dad, which was the hardest thing ever. I decided that I needed to tell my dad that his son had passed away. We hoped that maybe he was just eccentric and went off-grid and did something crazy. But that whole thing with my brother re-triggered many things, and my life spiraled from there. I just needed something, so I was going to therapy and doing different treatments. I was also more open to spirituality, so I started listening to certain preachers who watered down the gospel. Hence, the teaching was more palatable to me. I was more open to that kind of spirituality, but I also dabbled in things like Reiki, got deep into yoga, and got my yoga teacher certification, which they taught as a spiritual practice. I also got into Native American shamanism.

You shared that you had PTSD, but you don’t have it anymore. How did the PTSD go away?

Praise Jesus, I don’t have PTSD anymore. I knew my brother had PTSD from the military, so I was curious about PTSD and did some research and had already been going to regular therapy. I talked to my therapist about it and was watching videos and hearing people describe flashbacks and I thought, “Holy smokes,” that’s what I experienced all the time. I didn’t know that’s what it was, so whenever there was a specific trigger, I would re-experience certain situations in my childhood, where someone miscommunicated with me. I would feel like I was in physical danger because of that miscommunication as a kid. I had this false belief that if I didn’t communicate well, I would be in danger. So, if I had a simple miscommunication with a friend, I would feel in physical danger. I would describe it as I felt I was in a burning building and needed to get out. I felt such an urgency, and living an everyday life like that became difficult because you communicate with people regularly. There were other triggers, too, and I saw a lot of specialists who claimed to be able to help with PTSD, so I did anything I could think of, and a lot of the things helped take the edge off of the symptom. I did cognitive-behavioral therapy; I went to an intensive program that you would go to almost every day, and they did a lot of group therapy work. I tried dialectical behavioral therapy and prolonged exposure therapy. EMDR, dance therapy, neurofeedback, mindfulness meditation, and all the new-age stuff—I tried anything because I was desperate. They gave me temporary relief, but they weren’t healing me. When I re-dedicated my life to Christ and became a believer again, I did cognitive processing therapy because it helps you identify your false beliefs and determine a more accurate belief. After all, their theory is that your emotions and triggers are based on a particular belief. So, if you pinpoint what your beliefs are, you can replace them with more accurate ones. I felt like I was spiraling and not getting better, and the main therapist I went to was trying to get me to accept that I had PTSD. It’s something I’ll need to live with for the rest of my life and manage the symptoms instead of looking for a cure, but I knew I couldn’t sustain it and was highly motivated to heal. I was also scared because therapy wasn’t working—I tried everything and worked so hard and was highly motivated to heal—I was going into depression and threw so much money at different therapies and treatments and couldn’t fix myself, so I gave up and out of desperation, I prayed and said, “God, I don’t even know if you’re real, and if you are real, I don’t even know if you would want me back, but I can’t do this anymore. I don’t have a solution—you’re my only hope. If you want me back, I’ll do things your way, and we’ll see if you can do something with this mess." I completely surrendered. 

I learned that it was my trauma that caused me to go down the rabbit trail of not believing. When I look back, seeds were planted along the way, and even when I wasn’t serving the Lord, there were so many situations, and I know the Lord was carrying me. After surrendering to Jesus, I bought a Bible, started praying, and attended church. I was still going to cognitive processing therapy. The reason why I was open to going was I asked my therapist if I could use scripture to learn and come to know more accurate beliefs—I was committed to doing things God’s way, and one by one, using scriptures, my false beliefs were replaced by accurate beliefs rooted in God’s Word. I stopped going to therapy and doing what the Bible says to take every thought captive, so when I felt like I was in physical danger, I would remember that the Lord is my protector. 

Earlier, I described how when I would have a flashback, I would feel like I was in a burning building, and I would think about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and how they were in a fiery furnace because that was their punishment. After all, there was a rule about worshipping the king, and they refused to worship anyone but their God. The king looked into the furnace and saw a fourth person there, so I would remind myself that the Lord was with me. Isaiah 43:2 was such a meaningful scripture for me. I knew I wasn’t in danger, but I would think about the Lord being with me and protecting me. Those flashbacks were the most horrific thing—I just felt tormented, and they were excruciatingly painful, and it would take me days to recover from them. And they were just physically challenging—my body was constantly in crisis mode, so it took a toll on my health, too, but I learned to praise God during my suffering. I learned that despite suffering, I could rejoice, and that God would use these circumstances to build character. I have the joy of the Lord and complete freedom in Him—what He has done for me; He can do for anyone! 

Debi Rutkowski

Former nurse, group leader of Delighting in the Lord women's ministry, and involved with the cancer support and healthcare ministries at Calvary Chapel of Chester Springs, PA. A wife, mother of six, and soon-to-be grandmother of eleven to Stan’s family.

These are Debi's favorite scriptures that have ministered to her during life challenges.

Debi shared her testimony on Truth, Talk & Testimonies

When did you come to know the Lord?

I was 21 years old when I accepted the Lord into my life. I was actually at a Keith Green memorial concert that his wife, Melody, was organizing around the country after he tragically passed in a plane accident with their two children. My mom’s Bible study group was praying for me and was taking a bus to go down, so they asked if I wanted to go along. Reluctantly, I would say I went along because I knew about Christianity and thought that “I’m not going to be one of them.”. So, we went to the concert, and I was curious about Melody Green because I couldn’t believe that it had been about three to six months since she had lost her husband and two children. I wondered how she could share this and talk about the Lord after she’s gone through that and must still be hurting so much. That pulled at my heart the whole time when she was talking; I was thinking, “Wow, there’s something to this, you know?” That day, the Lord made me stand up because in my heart, when they were giving the alter call, in my heart, I was struggling and didn’t want to stand up because my mom’s going to be crying and all over me and everything–That’s what was in my head. Still, my heart was pounding, and I knew God was calling. I’ve always said that it must have been an angel that came over there and stood me up because the next thing I knew, I was standing up. After I gave my life to Christ, I went to the back, and they gave me information and the Lord took me from that point and took me to different churches and different friends that I would meet—He helped me to mature along the way. 

Your testimony is about the goodness of God, and you have gone through so many things. What are some things that you have gone through?

Well, some things were from my life choices, and others were just like—everybody has those things. We all go through hard times. But I was pregnant and unmarried at sixteen and had my daughter Erica, and soon after, I got pregnant again and, unfortunately, had an abortion and married her father. It was not a good relationship and was abusive many times, and our marriage didn’t last long. We got divorced, and I was a single mom for seven years, so those were tough times, and then the Lord brought me my husband, Stanley.

When I was a single mom, I had a wonderful couple who took me under their wing, and Esther picked me out of the crowd at church. I don’t know if they saw me coming in with my two kids or what, but she was always good at listening to the Lord. He must have sent her because she and her husband were incredible to me. Esther found a nursing school in Norristown, PA, for licensed practical nursing to start and see what God does. I called the nursing school and was told that they had a waiting list, and eight people were on it, but they said they would call me when a spot was available. Not even a week later, she called me—that was the Lord. The next hurdle was how to pay for it because I was on welfare at the time as a single mom. The director said, “I think there’s a program for single mothers to get educated,” she encouraged me to talk to my caseworker, and she gave me the program’s name and got me approved for it. It was the Lord because it paid for everything, allowing me to continue my education and become a registered nurse. I went to Montgomery County and completed the program; the program paid for everything, including my gas and daycare. It was the Lord’s hand in that whole thing to take care of me and watch over me—His goodness.

When I went to college later on to become a registered nurse, Esther and her husband would have me over for dinner once per week and make me go upstairs and take a nap, and when I woke up, we would have dinner together. They would pray over me, read the Word, do some little devotion or something, and then send me on my way home to get the kids. Her husband would change the oil in my car and even taught me stuff like that. They were a blessing in my life, and then there were so many other people in the church I was going to where Andy and Esther went; the church came alongside me, and there was a mechanic at the church who would fix my car and inspect it for nothing. That’s all God’s hand; He cared for me and His goodness. 

I met my husband, Stan, when we were around thirty-two, and I had two children—my daughter Erica and my son Jared. So I was single all that time and met Stan at a Christian coffeehouse, and we were both on staff there, and God started working on our hearts, and it was three months later we were married—we just knew He wanted us together and it was something divine. We then had four children together and have been through many painful things together. It was hard at first as a blended family to mesh everything together, and there were some areas we needed to work out with my outside family, too; there were issues we needed to work out. 

Doctors diagnosed my husband with a muscle autoimmune disease about ten years into our marriage. He’s a carpenter, and suddenly, he started noticing he was feeling weak and exhausted and would lose his balance sometimes. He’s been under treatment for that and stable for about twenty years now. Later in our marriage, doctors diagnosed Stan with prostate cancer, and in 2008, doctors diagnosed me with pancreatic cancer—a neuroendocrine tumor. It’s a rare type of cancer, and it’s slow growing—it will never go away unless the Lord heals me, but it’s metastatic now, and it is active at this point but very slow growing. So I’m just under surveillance, and the doctors are watching. I’ve had different treatments over the years. We’ll see how it works out this time. 

I could see the Lord’s goodness through the body of Christ. So many people came alongside us when we were struggling with one diagnosis after the next. We had a growing family when Stan worked in the Carpenters Union. I remember 2008 was tough with the economy and the stock market dropping, and they didn’t have work at the union. The Carpenters Union laid him off for at least a year, forcing him to seek side work. This coincided with my cancer diagnosis, creating a troublesome time. All our medical costs were crazy, and I had a friend from high school who took it upon herself to organize a fundraiser for us. And it’s just like, you know, all those people coming around us and helping us. A few people gave my kids Christmas that year because we didn’t have money from work, and we would get anonymous checks in the mail, cash in an envelope, and groceries at the door. 

How do we look for the Lord’s goodness?

Sometimes, when hard things happen to you, you may tend to lean into self-pity or depression–actually, if you stay in self-pity–it will lead to depression, and then nothing good’s going to happen after that. You have to look for the Lord’s goodness in your life. Something that Esther taught me, and I used to listen to Elizabeth Elliott on the radio all the time, too, and she would always say, Go and help someone else. When you’re in a bad spot, help someone else. And I would do that, and it was such a blessing to help others—I would get blessed, but that’s God’s economy. We lay down our life like He laid down His life for us. 

Another way that the Lord brought goodness out of all the hard things, even with my abortion. I wanted to mention that in case you are out there who have had abortions and you’re keeping that secret or are in pain. I volunteered at Genesis Women’s Clinic in Pottstown, PA two years ago. God allowed me to take this horrible thing and be able to share and encourage these women that they don’t have to do this—you will regret it, and it’s an awful thing to have on your conscience. He also allowed me to run into others—even some relatives that I found out later had an abortion and some of my good friends—to let them know about the forgiveness of God. The Lord washes us white as snow when we confess our sins. And 1 John 1:9 says, He’s faithful and to cleanse us from all iniquity. When we confess our sins to Him, we’re whiter than snow, so we no longer need to carry that burden. And the Lord just always reminds me of that; even if there’s a little thought that comes into my mind about guilt—looking back at the guilt of that, the Lord has washed me clean from that, but the goodness of God is that He allows me to encourage others that you can have that forgiveness too. 

May you share about the women’s Bible studies Delighting in the Lord?

I believe they meet on Thursdays at the church and on Thursday evenings, and I think a couple of groups for working women. Still, Brenda Harris and Stacy Davis write these studies, and what I appreciated about it when I first learned about the studies when I first came to Calvary Chapel, Chester Springs, PA, after they wrote the Bible studies, was that elders and pastors go over them to make sure that they’re biblically sound. So, it was essential to me that the elders overlooked that. I’ve enjoyed everyone I’ve done so far, and I’m currently the co-facilitator with another person in our groups, so I couldn’t encourage you more to come out to that. So, we had a lesson and broke into small groups to do our homework. They’re all available on Amazon, or you can go to the Calvary Chapel, Chester Springs website and download them, print them out, and watch the simulcast from there. So, if you’re not in Pennsylvania, you can still watch them, and it’s free. Their Facebook page has their media outlets and past lessons on Google and Apple Podcasts, and you can find them on YouTube, too. 

Is there anything else God is putting on your heart to encourage others?

Do not be ashamed of your testimony. I had been ashamed of some parts of my testimony, especially about the abortion or being a single mom pregnant out of wedlock when I was younger. I felt like I was not a good enough Christian, but the Lord reminded me that He forgave and washed me and wants me to share my story to encourage others. If you have shame as I did, please give that to the Lord–it’s not Him–Satan wants us to be ashamed of who we are or what we’ve gone through, and God loves us just the way we are.  

Purchase Delighting in the Lord Women's Bible Study Workbooks on Amazon

Noemi Padilla

Nurse and Client Support Specialist with

And Then There Were None (ATTWN)

These are the scriptures that have spoken deeply to Noemi's heart and the resources that she shared. 

Noemi shared her testimony on Truth, Talk & Testimonies

Noemi, please share your testimony. You told me that you were a Christian but backslid. Can you tell me what happened?

I grew up in a very Christian family—I like to say I’ve been a Christian since I was six months old. We left Puerto Rico and came to the United States, and my entire family attended the same church. I grew up there and formed lifelong friendships with friends who shared my cribs in the nursery. So, I had a strong Christian upbringing.

My Christianity—my religion and my life—were two separate things growing up. Again, my grandmother planted amazing seeds, teaching us to count on and trust God. Despite being raised in the church, I had a tumultuous upbringing. I used to think that anybody who was a Christian or member of a church was perfect, but God is the only perfect one, and we’re all sinners. Churches are hospitals for sinners. Unfortunately, there was abuse on multiple levels, even within the church. Growing up in this environment made me angry. If someone is dealing with this in every aspect of their life, told God is good, you begin to question where God is during all this horrible stuff. There was physical abuse, there was sexual abuse, drugs, and alcoholism. There was so much. Thankfully, I was never angry at God.

When I was old enough to make my own decisions, I was making terrible choices instead of making wise decisions, and I became sexually active and promiscuous. During my backslidden years, I believed in God, but I was trying to survive. Amidst everything, I got pregnant at seventeen. Getting pregnant was a big fork in the road as I was about to graduate high school and attend college. For me, the only way out of my upbringing and life living in the ghetto was an excellent education, and this was always super important to me. Despite having terrible attendance, I managed to maintain straight A’s in my studies. I remember I found out a month and a half before my high school graduation and found out on a fluke because I wasn’t even in tune with my body. One morning, after eating two scrambled eggs, I fell gravely ill. I shared my pregnancy news, and my friend suggested I schedule an abortion. That’s how casual and the norm it is—you get pregnant, and the solution is to have an abortion. 

We got a hold of a pregnancy test, and I was pregnant—she wasn’t wrong. From there, I embarked on this mission to get an abortion. I was underage at seventeen, so I took my own Medicaid card from my mom’s bag because I dared not ask her, “Hey, Mom—can I have my insurance card to have an abortion?”. So I grabbed my card and took a bus to the abortion clinic—I remember the location of the abortion clinic—I remember that it was on the 5th floor, and when I got there, somebody took some blood work and some urine. A while later, she comes to me and says, “You’re seventeen, and you’re pregnant with twins—it’s a twin pregnancy.”. At that moment, I felt disconnected from everything and asked, “What did that mean?“ Is it still possible to perform the procedure today?” She responded that it could be done, but it will be more money. I didn’t care if it cost more because I wasn’t paying for it. After all, they put the charge on my insurance card back then. They charged my insurance, and not once did they ask if my legal guardian was there since I was underage. A little while later, she returned to tell me that I was very far along and in the second trimester of pregnancy. Again, I asked, does this mean we can’t do this today? She responded, We can. Nothing was sinking in because, at this point, I was in survival mode. I was trying to come to terms with everything—it was either having babies and getting married and going through another cycle, another generation of this. I pictured having the abortion as a breakaway to go to college and do the best that I can do.

They did the procedure, and I don’t remember much after that other than when I woke up; they said that I was screaming, but you have to get up and go home now. And so, I said okay, and then they asked if somebody was there to pick me up, and I lied and said, “Yeah, my boyfriend is downstairs.”. They responded, “Okay, goodbye,” and gave me some antibiotics. I hobbled to the bus to go back home and remembered that I had almost made it all the way home, but I became sick around four blocks from where I needed to get off the bus. Now, as a nurse, I know that’s the anesthesia and the motion sickness. When I got off the bus, which happened to be in front of my dad’s job, I started throwing up. Somebody told him that his daughter was across the street and she was sick. When my dad walked across the street, I remember panicking, and he asked what was wrong with me. I told him that I must have a stomach flu. He told me to stop it and walk home, which I did. I can’t even tell you that I took the pills they gave me—I boxed my abortion up, put it away, and graduated high school. I went to college and thought I was living a good life, but I was making horrible decisions. 

Was it after college that you started your nursing career?

Yes, I went to college, graduated from nursing school, and started my nursing career. I remember that my first nursing job was at this well-to-do and posh hospital in the Bronx, and supplies were plentiful, so it was a good nursing experience. I did that for about 8 years, and then I went to a city hospital because I wanted to experience both sides, so I went into community medicine at a city hospital and got to see the other side of nursing where you were struggling to keep your patients alive and enjoyed this experience so much more because I felt like I was giving back to my community and felt what nursing is all about. Fast forward–911 happened, and I didn’t want to live in the city anymore, so I moved out to Florida, which was one block away from the abortion clinic where I worked, so I knew very well what was being done there. Still, it didn't bother me because I had an abortion myself, and I was extremely pro-choice at that time. The way I perceived it was that my abortion saved my life when I was seventeen, so I want to go in there and help woman–I want to help save their lives and give them what was given to me, and I think that it’s a key point because one of our phrases that we like to share a lot is that no one grows up wanting to work in an abortion clinic. For instance, in my nursing school and clinical, we were excited to do OB, and no one said, “Yes, let me go work at an abortion clinic.” 

I wanted to give back and help women, and it was super convenient for me because it was a block away from where I lived, and I could walk to work if I wanted. As a former New Yorker, I didn’t have a driver's license at the time–it was like the perfect picture of everything. So I walked in one day after getting off my night shift at my previous job and asked the girl at the front desk if they were hiring. They asked what I do, and I told them that I was a nurse, so they got the executive director. She asked if I had time to interview her immediately because she needed a nurse. We went into a room to talk, and she said I would be a great fit there. From the beginning, she uplifted me, and I’m a former New Yorker–don’t schmooze me, you know. She saw it wasn’t working for me, so she said, “Let me introduce you to our doctor, a New York transplant. She's a former New Yorker.” I said fine, so she introduced me to her, and immediately we meshed–there were many connections. We discovered that we ate Chinese food in the same circle, worked at the same hospital, and had the same work ethic. The next thing you know, I was told that working there would be a good fit, and I thought so.

Then, I was asked if I could start that day because they needed me. I said no because I told her I smelled–I was working at the jail, and jails have a distinct smell because they have a closed ventilation system. I picked up on the nonverbal communication between them, which I came to learn about quickly. And she goes, “Well, you know, we'll offer you a $500 sign-on bonus if you can start right now.” They see where the need is and how they can grasp you, and they see that that would get me. Who doesn’t like $500 dollars? In my mind, I said this is a piece of cake, and $500 dollars can’t hurt. The executive director then took out $500 and paid me–I didn’t even need to wait before the shift was over. About a couple of hours into the shift, I noticed that the support staff was very excited I asked them what they were excited about, and they said that they met the quota and they were going to get lunch that day and if we saw two more patients, we’re going to get the good lunch. I asked them what they were talking about, and they shared that every time we see 12 patients, they buy lunch for us, and if we see 24 patients, we get to get Chinese food instead of pizza or sandwiches. And I'm like, OK, so a little while later, they came up to me and said they would get Chinese food, and what did I want? That didn't seem right to me, so I told them no–I’m okay. The doctor then insisted I get something because I was there all day and needed to eat something. And that’s how they pull you in further. Then, I took out my cell phone which was pretty old, and the doctor noticed and said, “Girl, that phone is ancient. You cannot have that phone to represent us. We'll get you a new phone”. 

Now, let’s look at the whole picture–I got a $500 sign-on bonus, and I was told that every day, if we met the quota, we got free lunch, they were going to buy me a new phone, work was close to home, I could help women–I should’ve caught on quickly, that this was out of the norm. You don't go into any job or hospital and have all these things given to you, but we don't think that clearly when you're being given all these gifts or when you're being given $500 on the spot. So, I started my four years there, and this was just an indication of what life would be like there, in a short amount of time, it was me saying to the support staff–Hold on, you're having a bad day, let's get some dessert or, you know, just everything was compensated–we fixed it–whatever it took to keep the flow and keep the peace and the patients circulating. 

About two months later, they told me I was ready to learn about the sonogram room. I’ve been a nurse for a long time but haven't attended sonography school. They told me that they were going to teach me, and the owner at the time told me she was going to take me under her wing. I thought she must have gone to sonogram school, but she didn’t even have medical assistance credentialing. Yet, she performed the sonograms and taught others how to perform sonograms.

But again, that evil part of us gets uplifted quickly, and they say you can do this, and before you know it, it becomes a challenge for me. I had to perfect sonograms, which became my next milestone. I kept doing sonograms until they were terrific, and I began getting kudos. I got a new Michael Kors bag, and the doctors were so happy with me, and all was well. But throughout all this, we're still performing abortions–We're still treating women horribly–and still an assembly line. Then, the executive director had an accident; she fell, and she got hurt and was going to be out for a long time. The owner called me, saying, “I have a job offer for you. Do you want to be the interim executive director? Because you can do this. You're the only one who can run this clinic.” I responded, “Absolutely not.” I have no desire to do anything other than nursing. And then she said, “Well, it comes with a big pay raise.” Once I heard about the salary, I changed my mind and told her I would do it. I clarified that I had free range to make decisions, and she said yes. So, I thought this was a good opportunity to fix some of the problems we had going on to give better patient care, have the young ladies in a medical professional environment, and, you know, things like that. Well, she fought me every step of the way. Anything that created a wave in her flow was an issue.

Throughout this, I had to hire several young ladies, which I did, and after about two years, I knew I couldn't do this anymore. It was horrendous. But I felt responsible for these young ladies that I had hired, and I had also seen when somebody left the abortion industry, how they get blacklisted and shunned worse than the Amish. It’s a cult-like environment. This family they claim to be so that we can all isolate and deal with each other. You become enemy number one when you have an opinion or step out of that circle. So, I felt responsible for these young ladies, and I told them I didn’t know how long I would be there, but if they wanted out to go talk to the crazy people on the sidewalk and see what they were about. Those were our sidewalk advocates for life and Abby Johnson’s ministry, And Then There Were None, and all prayer warriors were represented. I told them that I would give them good recommendations and see how they could help you out, and then they started quitting one by one like dominoes and having successful encounters with And Then There Were None. They were excited, genuinely cared for, and learned they were real and not horrible. 

We were in that process for about two years, and finally, one morning, I woke up and was so weary. While putting on my uniform, I said, “I couldn’t do this anymore.” Then I heard a voice say, “You don’t have to do this; you can quit.” I started to rationalize. They wouldn't have a nurse if I didn’t go to work. And then, I heard the voice again say, “You can just quit.” I knew it was God speaking to me, and it was the sign I needed, so I told Him I would quit. I called the doctor first and told him I was quitting today, and she said, “Here we go, What do you need? A Michael Kors bag, a few days off?” She wasn't a horrible person. She was just trying to please me in what I was possibly disgruntled over. Regardless of our credentials, we were all in the same cult-like environment. So I said no, I'm going to quit. She goes, all right, just come into the office, and we'll talk. So I got to the office and said, here’s the keys to your kingdom–I don’t want them anymore. The owner took the keys and said, “You’ll be back.” And I responded, “I would not be back”. It became a really bad interaction, but I grabbed my stethoscope and the magazine on my desk and walked away. 

I called my brother and asked him if we could go to the beach. He thought I was having a nervous breakdown, I said, no, let's just go to the beach. I sat at the shoreline by the water's edge and cried for eight hours. Every once in a while, my brother came to give me water and a sandwich. I begged God for forgiveness, and I remember telling Him I wasn’t worthy of this, and I’m so sorry. I didn’t know what I was doing tomorrow but knew what I couldn’t do today. And then, I called And Then There Were None, and it was such a beautiful thing because I remember that initial phone call so clearly. I said, “Hey, this is me, I'm from Tampa, Florida.” The person responded, “Wait a minute–Purple building on Fletcher Avenue. You?” 

My old abortion clinic was distinctively painted purple on purpose so that we could describe it to the patients–it’s the purple building–you can't miss us. So I said yes, that's me. And he said, “We have been praying for you for years.” God sent me the sign; I was now with the right people because they didn’t know me, but they knew me, had been praying for me, and weren’t holding anything against me. I felt instant peace. Abby Johnson’s ministry, And Then There Were None, is focused on ex-abortion workers in any way, shape, or form–It could be medical, it could be clerical, it could be male or female–We have male participants, we have had people who have, reached out to us who have picked up specimens from the abortion clinic. So, it's anyone who is in any way, shape, or form affiliated with or affected by an abortion clinic. 

In my personal redemption path, I trusted my God-seeds, planted so firmly that I trusted them, and knew that he forgave me. That part was so much easier for me than for me to forgive myself. I had already accepted His love. I knew I was redeemed, but I was still knocking myself, wondering how I did what I did, and I was stuck in that phase for a while. It’s a process–Not that you quit, and that’s it. You quit, and then we have different stages of healing, such as Healing Foundations 101 for those who have quit recently, and that’s our accountability weekend, where you have to come to terms with things. I used to say, “They did that”. I was saying this even though I no longer work there, and I’m separated from them. At my first healing retreat, I said this a few times. I said, “Wait a minute, I am they and took responsibility in this safe zone for it and completely broke down. I needed to come to terms with the fact that I participated in over 5,000 abortions. 

When we come to terms with I participated in over 5000 abortions, you know, when we lovingly go through this process where we try and put a number together–Not that it matters because life is life, but it's part of our healing process, and it’s way better for me to go through that with a group of women who are there loving me unconditionally then for me to go through that alone at 1:00 am so they understand. There’s a place for abortion workers to come safely where it's going to be nonjudgmental and unconditional–I promise you that nothing that they say that they've done has been said or done before. We're a unique group, and they can't shock us. The reason why I put my dirty laundry out there and wrongdoings and speak publicly is because if one person in the industry hears or sees a sister to someone who works in an abortion clinic–for me, it was my brother who was a chaplain who prayed for me every day when I was working there. He would call me, saying, “I’m praying for you.” We didn’t have any other conversation other than that for four years, and somebody else can hear it and say, wait, I want to pass this information forward to somebody who works in the abortion industry. 

The devil wants to keep you isolated and keep you having a facade. There is truth, light, and happiness in the world. Put the work in for your healing, and you can laugh and smile again–We do. 

Is there any other encouragement you can give to people?

Please contact any of the ministries mentioned if you are touched by any part of my testimony or anything you heard. And Then There Were None is super vital to both current and ex-abortion workers–we don’t care if you worked in an abortion clinic 25-30 years ago and never had healing because we know what it’s like to carry that burden. So please, any affiliation that you've ever had with any abortion clinic, reach out to us, it doesn't hurt. It's one phone call. You can text if you don't like what you hear, which hasn’t happened yet, but you don’t have to follow through. There’s help out there, and there’s a whole tribe waiting to love you unconditionally and help you get another smile on your face because we know how hard it is to look at ourselves in the mirror and smile. 

Abby Johnson, CEO + Founder

And Then There Were None (ATTWN)

****Text or call (888) 570-5501 to get started on the path to freedom outside the abortion industry**** 

Oasis Pregnancy Care Centers -- Five locations in Florida

Patsy Hahn

  Trust in the LORD with all your heart,

  And lean not on your own understanding;

  In all your ways acknowledge Him,

  And He shall direct your paths.

 Proverbs 3:5-6

Patsy shared her testimony on a Truth, Talk & Testimonies

Patsy retired, but what did you use to do?

I’ve been retired for over two years, but for 12 years before that, I owned a store in Boyertown called Patty’s Pot-pourri of Gifts. I ensured all items, including the paper bags, were made in the U.S.A. It was fun. I am retired, but I need to be retired from being retired because I’m so busy. 

How long were you married, and what happened? 

Garth and I were married for 24 years and two months. My husband was a logger, which is a lumberjack, and he went to work one morning and went into the woods alone; a huge limb from a tree from behind hit him, and he passed away immediately. 

Everyone processes grief differently, but what did you say to me that you went from shock to faith mode? What is faith mode to you? It was a shock for several months—I kept moving forward, but it was a shock, and that’s what usually happens when you lose your spouse suddenly. He left that morning; I kissed him goodbye, said we loved each other, had a little joke, and he would usually call me at lunchtime. I got a phone call at about 12:30 pm, thinking it was my husband, but his trucker found him in the woods. And he did that because as soon as it happened, they had to call the police; therefore, reporters were out, and he didn’t want me to see or hear the news on TV. They were close friends for 21 years, so it was hard.

Did you have support from your church family during this time?

Garth and I were going to church in Hamburg, PA, which was 45 minutes from our house, so they were as supportive as possible because they weren’t around the corner. Hence, it’s not like they could bring meals, although they probably could have brought me meals to church because I never missed a beat, but it was okay because they ministered to me in different ways. I had a close bond with girlfriends and family that took me in and carried me—the Lord carried me, but the Lord used them to stay with me because I lived alone in the woods—they did a lot to help me.

Patsy went from shock to face mode. What did faith mode look like to you? Can you explain?

I can explain it, but I can’t tell you what it looks like. For you, what was faith mode? I always had faith. When my husband passed, I was saved for 36 years—I got saved at the age of 25 and got married at 37, so I always had faith in Jesus Christ—He was and is my Savior—I can’t even explain it, but probably because of my personality; and everybody’s personalities are different, but I have a strong personality. So, therefore, I just took hold and went through the motions of what I had to do, and then a couple of months later, I just went into faith mode.

I trusted the Lord for everything, which I still do. I don’t worry about anything; I take it to the Lord, making my life easy. I always tell people I didn’t get this gray hair from worrying, so I fell deeper in love with the Lord, and I cried out to Him and never once asked Him why, Lord, why did you do this? I lost several family members, my mother, my father, my brother, and my sister, and I never did because, to me, when you ask why—for me, this is my conviction—you’re asking the Lord why and not trusting Him to know the plan—it’s all about the trust for me. Jeremiah 29:11 says that He has a plan for us, so I trusted Him, and years ago, when I was single, a godly woman shared with me that the Lord is your husband and will meet your every need, and I never forgot that, so when my husband died, I said, “Okay, Lord, you’re my husband again. You were on sabbatical. Now, here we are again.” This was faith mode for me. 

Can you explain how faith and trust are different? 

Faith, for me, is believing. For instance, when you accept Christ into your life, you believe. Trust, to me, is when you believe and have given Him your whole life, and you trust Him to orchestrate your whole life because He has a plan, and you trust Him and that His plan is the right plan. You don’t question Him; you go with it—the bad, the good, and the ugly—and there’s all that in life. 

Now, a group for widows started at Berean Bible Church. Can you share about this group? 

Well, before I do, I would like to share that after my husband passed away, I felt a tug to come alongside other widows. I still had my store. I would have people come in and have the opportunity to talk with them, and some would share that they recently lost their husbands, so I would speak with them. So, at first, I started to do this independently, as I felt like the Lord was calling me to do that, and that went on for a year or two. Then, I went back to Berean Bible Church because my husband and I attended there for 13 years, and when I got there, I started to minister because there were a lot of widows there that I knew for years that weren’t widows when I knew them back then, and so I independently did that. A woman in our church started the group. Still, I felt I needed to challenge her because she wasn’t a widow, so I asked her how she could run the group when she wasn’t a widow because a widow has needs that nobody knows about, and you can’t understand how you can’t understand how you lose your husband unless you’ve lost them. She’s such a godly woman that she realized that and asked me if I would be willing to take it over, and I said I would and I have somebody who helps me—another widow—and that’s what we’re doing, ministering to the widows. 

What’s the name of the group? 

The name of the church group is Hope Builders at Berean Bible Church in Pottstown, PA. I try to plan something every month and it’s always a surprise because we need this in our lives.

Before the broadcast, you share something special about your wedding ring which is connected to one of your favorite scriptures. Where did you put this scripture? 

Yes, the scripture is from Proverbs 31:11-12 

“The heart of her husband safely trusts her; 

So he will have no lack of gain. 

She does him good and not evil 

All the days of her life.”

I had this scripture engraved on my husband’s wedding band and that is now a necklace. I took it to the jeweler and had it made into a heart. Then, I had his mother’s wedding ring and put her diamond in the middle of it so I could have it close to my heart. That was very important to me, and I feel like the Lord allowed me to do that. 

Another one of your favorite scriptures is Proverbs 3:5

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your understanding;

In all your ways acknowledge Him,

And He shall direct your paths.”

That’s my life verse for 44 years. I trust in the Lord and know He has a plan for me. 

Do you have anything else the Holy Spirit is leading you to share to encourage others?

Yes, I have a couple of things. When my husband passed, I felt like I had a hole in my heart—that’s exactly how I felt when I went to the doctor a couple of months later; he asked me how I was doing. He also asked, “How’s your heart doing?” He didn’t know that I had lost my husband. So, I said to him, “It’s fine except for the hole in my heart.” He was thinking I meant physically, and I was talking mentally. So, over the years, I have seen God fill this pain in my heart with many blessings and opportunities to serve Him. My whole thing is that you can grieve—it’s natural to grieve—but not to wallow. Wallowing creates self-pity, and Satan loves that. Don’t let anything rob you of your joy—be positive. My husband will be gone 8 years this month—I still miss him—and I still love him. I still cry sometimes if something sets me off, but I’m going on because I tell all the windows that I speak to, they’re gone, they’re not coming back, so the Lord doesn’t want you to wallow—He wants you to go on and trust him—He has, he still has life for you and a plan for you. Cry if needed because it cleanses the soul, but don’t let anyone steal your joy. Minister to others; do things for others to shift your focus from self-pity. Give to others. When my husband passed, I didn’t want people to say, “Look at her, she trusted the Lord all those years, and then He took her husband—I wanted them to say, ‘Look at her, the Lord took her husband, and she still trusts Him.” And I want God to get the glory for this. Happiness is a choice; sometimes, we must choose it every day. Believers in Christ who lose their spouses have so many blessings. Just the fact that they have peace knowing that they’re going to see their loved ones again and peace has a big part in the grieving process. I thank God for everything. When someone says, “Oh, you lost your husband, I say, You know what? I had a wonderful husband—a wonderful life and marriage, and I thank God. I was married for only 24 years—I would say we were still on our honeymoon, but I’m blessed and thankful for everything. I have seen such a change in my life since my husband passed. God has given me things I’ve never had before, such as wisdom, grace, and more compassion, and I love my church, the people in it, and the good preaching. 

Wake up every morning and thank the Lord. I always prayed in the morning to keep my husband safe spiritually, mentally, and physically. Now, I wake up and say thank you for letting me wake up another day. We take that for granted. One day, we’re here, and then we’re not. When I wake up and make my coffee and haven’t thanked the Lord yet, I stop and say, “Lord, thank you; lead me today. Don’t let me lead you—you lead me.” If someone calls and they’re crying–that’s the agenda for the day. Be joyful and grieve as much as you need to, and the hurt of grieving will go away over time. It’s been 8 years for me. Some widows in our group have been widows for 20-30 years, and you see the difference over the years. Seasoned by experience, they’ve come to accept this as their life. Think positive and trust the Lord—we don’t know what He has planned. Trust in Him. We have hope that we’re going to see our loved ones again. 

Berean Bible Church 

Hope Builders Ministry (giving people hope after losing a spouse)

2675 High Street

Pottstown, PA 19464

Church Website: https://bereanbiblefamily.org/

Church Phone Number: 610-326-8794

Cindy Rosenthal

Health Services Administrator and Author

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

"So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten," Joel 2:25

Cindy shared her story on a VictoryEmbraced: Truth, Talk & Testimonies broadcast.

May you share about your childhood and the process you went through to go from being a survivor to thriving? 

I grew up in a difficult household environment. My parents were highly abusive, and my father was a man of violence. At a very young age, I witnessed his violence toward my mother. I remember when I was 5 years old; we lived in an apartment and I watched him nearly take my mother’s life by strangling her in front of the window. Thankfully, he let her go. 

This is the history of my parents’ relationship until they separated for the last time when I was about 8 years old. My father was physically and verbally abusive to me throughout most of my life. I was 8 when they got divorced, but unfortunately, my mother learned from my father and abused me the same way. Growing up in that atmosphere was difficult, but after a while, I learned not to feel anything and that’s what I did, so when my father hit me, I was told that I didn’t have any reason to cry about it and I brought it upon myself. When my mother hit me, I tried to think of something else so that I wouldn’t feel what she did. My legs were covered in welts and I suffered from bloody noses which caused me great pain. As time passed, I came to accept it, and my grandparents became the only thing that brought me happiness in my upbringing.

I don’t remember a lot about my teenage years; I don’t have any memory of it because I believe it was God’s protection. He shut my memories off and took them away from me, so over the years of 13–17, I don’t have many memories of those years growing up. I only have fragments of memory and not much else. It was a response to trauma to preserve oneself. 

My grandparents brought me so much joy during those years until I turned 15. My grandmother used to pick me up after school every Friday and we would spend the entire weekend together at their house until she got sick. It was a special time together and I will always be thankful to her. We were very close, and to this day, there are things my grandmother told me that I never repeated to anybody because we had that kind of relationship. She was my saving grace. 

What is the importance of allowing the Lord to heal us and make us whole? Can you share your process of becoming that thriver?

It was a long process for me, but it all started at 16 when I decided to turn off my emotions. I think that was the only way I could make it through everything happening in my life. I was at a loss after my grandmother’s passing and shut down as a result. The continuous abuse from my mother and the overwhelming unhappiness led me to shut down for approximately 8 years until the Lord intervened in my life at 24.

When the Lord came into my life, I felt God say to me that it was time to tune my emotions back on and to start to feel again. A lot of people feel such joy, and for me, there was a lot of pain that I needed to come to terms with, so I started a journey of healing, and my dear friend Goldie helped me tremendously.

About 6 months after I accepted the Lord, I started to work with Goldie. The interesting thing is that through all the pain I faced growing up, this was the first time that somebody said to me, “Cindy, you are allowed to feel,” so for me, this was the beginning of the journey of feeling and coming to terms with what happened and starting to accept what happened during my childhood. This was the beginning of my healing process, and it continued for years. I will never forget it. Goldie brought in a Rabbi one night to pray for me, and this Rabbi prayed and spoke with me for over 4 hours and helped me with prayers of deliverance to where I could move on with my life and I could say, Okay, it’s safe for me to feel anything I want to feel and shed tears because it’s okay—there’s nothing wrong with shedding tears—there’s nothing wrong with allowing yourself to feel so for me, at that point; this is when I started my healing journey. So when you go through this, there are so many levels, and for many years I went through allowing myself to heal—allowing myself to feel pain—allowing myself to say, Okay God, you’re coming into my life now. I now have you and you’re going to heal me. You’re going to give me things that I’ve never had in my life before. Through this process, God did so much work in my life. I can’t say that it’s all been easy because it hasn’t. I spent 14 years at the congregation where that journey started and then God took me out of that congregation and brought two people and other people in my life who weren’t at that congregation. I met a Rabbi and his wife in the beginning of my healing up in Albany, New York, who became parents to me, who became a mother and a father to me that I never had and this was what God did for me because the scripture says that God’s going to restore what the locust has eaten—God did that. So God gave me parents at an age that I needed them, so they also helped me and I started going up to Albany every 6–8 weeks and God used them. That’s when I started using the scripture Jeremiah 29:11 in my life. “For I know the thought that I think toward you, says the Lord, thought of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope,” and through that process, God gave me a future and a hope because I ended up in Albany, NY, 14 years later for another journey. Healing is a process—it’s not something that’s going to happen overnight; it didn’t happen overnight—it didn’t happen overnight for me, but if you stay with the process, God heals us. He heals us physically and emotionally because that’s what He promises us, so I held onto that promise that God would heal me and then God started the next part of my journey when I moved to Albany and He used my spiritual parents to help me through the next part of that journey and that’s where I spent the next almost 18 years. It’s still a process because I still go through it—I’m still on that journey because that journey continues as I moved to Florida 3 ½ years ago and the next part of my healing journey started—God never leaves us or forsakes us, but it’s a process and that’s the important thing. 

While in Florida, God did a huge deliverance. I went to a meeting one night when I was in despair and received prayer—it was such a powerful night that I walked in despair and when I left, Goldie looked at me and said, “You are a different person—your countenance has changed; you look different and from that night I realized God did a work in me. That night, God started the next part of the journey of healing, so it’s a process because with a lot of healing, you need to go through and as you go through the process, you see how the Lord does the work. It’s important that you allow God to do the work and see how He moves in your life—you see how God is working and what He has for you because through this process, there have been terrible times in my life, but I also see what the Lord has done in my life, and that’s what I hold on to more than the terrible times as a child and adult as a woman of God where you have to trust God even through the hardest times—you hold on to what God says and God has a plan for your life.

Cindy's story is written in the book Hope Alive: Debilitated to Exhilarated with God by Connie A. VanHorn--Ambassador Coordinator of Women World Leaders and Kimberly Ann Hobbs--President/Founder of Women World Leaders (World Publishing & Productions). 

Lisa Buldo

Mentoring, Coaching, Consulting, Author, and Host of The Victorious Life Broadcast

"But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 15:57) 

I was a very sickly child with asthma and allergies, which I developed at the age of 4. I struggled with asthma and allergies throughout my teen years as well. Then, at the age of 19, I developed acne, which I had for 15 years, and then in my early 30s, I struggled with digestive problems. The Lord burned a passion in me for nutrition, health, and wellness. Through all of this, I have learned how to get healthy and overcome my health challenges. Later on, I went on to become a Certified Health Coach. I have been working with clients and speaking all over the nation for 17 years, and I have been a researcher of health and nutrition for 23 years. 

Additionally, I went through a traumatic divorce in 1999, and it humbled me to the point of death. The reason for the divorce was due, in part, to my beginning. I grew up without a father, and I had abandonment issues along with fear, anger, and depression. It carried right into adulthood. I did not know how to have a proper relationship. I was very needy, controlling, and angry, and it ruined my marriage. After the divorce, I was so angry and depressed that I couldn’t eat, sleep, or think straight. I just existed. I sought out astrologers and psychics for help, and it made my situation worse. I had panic attacks and constant anxiety. 

One day, while I was at work, I had such a bad anxiety attack that I thought my heart would jump out of my chest. I went into the bathroom and locked the door, got on my knees, leaned over the toilet seat, and said, "God, I surrender. Please, if you help me, I’ll do anything. I don’t want to die!” A couple of minutes later, I composed myself and went back to my desk. As I wiped the tears from my eyes, a co-worker said to me, “Why don’t you just call your church and see if they can help you?” Embarrassed as I was, I did call my church to ask for help. They put me in touch with a woman who would forever change my life. Her name is Florence. I counseled with Florence once a week for 6 months, and I grew strong in the Lord. I read about 25 books during that time by Kenneth E. Hagin, and that began my “faith walk.” I’ve never looked back. I’ve been walking and growing in the Lord ever since, and I have overcome my struggle with fear, anger, and depression. I now coach clients all over the world and travel, speaking on the subject of healthy and victorious living. I specialize in healthy weight loss, type 2 diabetes, acne, and digestive issues, as well as the emotional issues of fear, anger, and depression, through the Biblical principles in God's Word. The scripture verse that helped me the most during the worst of my struggles is: “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” (Romans 8:28) I am called to spread the Good News, be a light in a dark place, and help the multitudes live in victory! 

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28) 

Lisa shared her testimony on a VictoryEmbraced: Truth, Talk & Testimonies broadcast. Please consider liking, sharing, and subscribing. Thank you! 

         Mentoring/Coaching/Consulting in Faith, Healing, and Kingdom Authority

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